Period 2 Conversations About Literature
Any period may read or post to any period, but use this starting point for followups to class discussions.
Any period may read or post to any period, but use this starting point for followups to class discussions.
Web links on detainee photo issue:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/politics/14photos.html?ref=middleeast
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104179238
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8048774.stm
fhsibenglish - May 15, 2009 at 10:35 am |
Cuckoo’s Nest –
Thought I would kick things off with this quote from my book that relates to what we were talking about today. It brings up the whole influence of society thing.
“And I got sick. It wasn’t the practices, it was the feeling that the great, deadly, pointing forefinger of society was pointing at me – and the great voice of millions chanting, ‘Shame, Shame, Shame.’ It’s society’s way of dealing with someone different.”
Kurt - May 18, 2009 at 4:07 pm |
Mountains Beyond Mountains
Here’s a quote in response to the influence of society on an individual, instead my book presents the opposite- the influence of an individual on society.
“I’d feel sorry that so many Haitian children still died of measles [...] but I’d also feel that I could never be sorry enough to satisfy him. I’d end up annoyed at Farmer for a time, in the way one gets annoyed at others when one has done them a disservice.”
I find it very interesting that the narrator’s response to Farmer is “annoyance”. It seems to me to be a defense for his inaction that I don’t believe he is aware of compared to Farmer’s action.
Megan - May 18, 2009 at 11:16 pm |
In the first book I read by Neil Gaiman, one main theme that presents itself is how far will you go for love or what you think is love. Tristan Thorn is in love with the “perfect girl.” In his eyes she does no wrong. So one night when they are outside he asks her to marry him. She says she won’t unless he can retrieve the falling star that landed in fairy land. To do so he must go across the fairy wall into a treacherous land that will challenge everything he holds dear. In the end will he think this “perfect girl” is worth it? This book is mainly about how Tristan develops, changes, and his quest.
Amryn - May 19, 2009 at 7:45 am |
Oooh, yes. Stardust is a most excellent work
It’s true that, generally, the book is just about Tristan’s journey, but overall there’s definitely more; if there’s one thing Neil Gaiman is good at, it’s throwing deep stuff into his literature.
I’d be excited to discuss your perspectives on this work (if you were up for it)!
Fiona - May 19, 2009 at 4:47 pm |
Personally, I wouldn’t go for someone that only wanted riches from me. I would say “Sorry, me for me, not for gold.” Finding the Starwoman was the best thing for him. Beautiful girl, slight temper to match his passive side, loved him for him.
And she was a damsel in distress, classic faerytale.
Eric von Jeffords - May 21, 2009 at 7:51 pm |
I forgot to mention the title! It’s Stardust.
Amryn - May 19, 2009 at 7:46 am |
I love that book. It is so cute…and unexpected twists and turns. Love is a very important theme in that book indeed.
Eric von Jeffords - May 21, 2009 at 7:46 pm |
One theme that seemed to emerge in my novel was that of invisibility. The speaker throughout the novel was an inmate that pretended to be deaf and mute. For much of the first part he just sat in the corner and observed what was happening. The patients in the ward were always being observed, it seemed like, even if it wasn’t direct. There was always the feeling of an unseen force that was directing the lives of the characters. The speaker referenced it as the “Combine”, or the internal workings that were always present. Does anybody have any comments on this theme? Is it present in your novel?
Kurt - May 19, 2009 at 5:08 pm |
Having read Cuckoo’s Nest, I definitely agree that it is a prevalent theme, and it almost seems like the book is trying to point out the problems with “making youself invisible–” or as I would call it, isolating oneself from others/society. My own book, Catcher in the Rye, also deals with this issue. Holder, the narrator and main character, is constantly critisizing the people surrounding him, especially with his catch-all phrase, “phony.” He does not think that people’s actions are genuine, but only a result of societal expectations/rules. While he himself sometimes engages in the same “phony” actions, his distaste for it lead him to mentally isolate himself from the rest of the world. Like in Cuckoo’s Nest, I feel that this is also giving a negative spin on isolation/invisibility, because Holden is often saying how lonely he is.
Patrick - May 20, 2009 at 7:55 pm |
Legs
This sort of connects with Amryn’s theme of how far one will go for love. In Legs, the main character, Jack, has a wife and a mistress. Both are supposedly in love with him, and no matter what horrible situations Jack gets himself into (he is a gangster during prohibition),they remain loyal to him. Each also knows that he is NOT faithful, and they continually threaten to leave him, but in the end, pledge their everlasting love to him. I think this whole relationship is interesting. Through the omniscient narrator, the audience can sense that both women’s feelings are sincere, however, through their actions after Jack’s death, it becomes clear that they are merely superficial. It seems as if they were simply putting their own needs above everything else, using Jack as the means for success. I guess a meaning of life question: where does LOVE fit in? None of the characters in my story put love, or even friendship, as a priority.
Gillian - May 19, 2009 at 9:50 pm |
“Love is a many-splendored thing, love lifts us up where we belong, all you need is love!”
THE FOLLOWING PARAGRAPHS MAY BE UNSUITABLE IF YOU ARE ABHORRED BY SEX ETC. PLEASE DO NOT READ ON IF THIS IS TRUE FOR YOU
In my book the love is very interesting. The main character, Augusten, has a love/hate relationship with Niel Bookman. Augusten says he loves Bookman, but he always pushes him away. However, Niel appears to be madly in love with Augusten, almost to the point of obsession I feel. I, personally, do not agree with the relationship because Augusten, in his memoir, is sixteen and Niel is in his thirties. Throughout the times when Bookman is there he only appears to want to have sex, which is very stereotyping of the gay male (I almost typed gale may XD). At first I didn’t think this had ever happened then I finished the book and it all fell into place.
I would like to bring up this topic of being used and obsession. Firstly, I would like to state that Bookman was indeed very obsessed with Augusten, it was not love but lust I feel. The way the author characterized Bookman was bitter and frightening. Augusten would pull up memories of him coming into his room in the middle of the night just for sex. Augusten being the sadist would always push him away and be very indifferent and cold after wards which leads me to believe that Augusten was using Bookman for some free pleasure.
So what is love when it is not within the family. Nowadays it seems that some men will look at a girl they find attractive and say “I’m in love with her, I want her.” Well…what part do you want exactly?” Then I walk away disgusted when they answer.
From a guy’s perspective and from one who is a hopeless romantic in a world where the romantic man does not come along and ask you anymore, you have to find them, I see the aforementioned as sickening. Love should not be about lust, it should be about sharing ones life with the other. Some men will agree with me, and some of those men are the ones that just want sex, they see that as a way of “sharing”.
Now, is that pleasure necessary for a love relationship? Is love necessary for the meaning of life at all? Not love of the family, love of another that is outside your family.
Eric von Jeffords - May 21, 2009 at 7:44 pm |
BTDub work is Running with Scissors
Eric von Jeffords - May 21, 2009 at 7:48 pm
I am captivated by Through Painted Deserts by Donald Miller. It’s a true story about two men, Paul and Don (or Donald, the author of this book) who decide to leave everything, and travel cross country in an old Volkswagen van. They have very limited money and leave from Huston with the plan of eventually heading to the Grand Canyon and then to Oregon. They have no set schedule, no motives, just the need to be truly free. One of the many things that I love about this book, is how these two men, actually see the beauty around us. There is a deep hidden beauty about the world, and we need to have more than just moments of this beauty, more than just special occasions. While reading this book it occurred to me that we are missing one of the greatest gifts in life by distancing ourselves in the secluded world of wants, to do’s, and constant busyness. We rarely take time to really truly see things. I have marveled at the simple miracle in a blade of grass, a ray of sunshine, and how everything is pieced so intricately together in the world we live in…
This is a passage that really stuck out to me, and I wanted to know what everyone thinks.
“…Black gives to hue and it is a blue like no blue on any painting or picture. This is living blue, changing from one hue to another, shifting slowly the way color only does at morning.
Spilled on the brown, then, are dry and shadowy lakes of deep, rich darkness; the absence of light. My tracks are laid out, marking my path, and as I look back, I see the van is now a small form beside a block threadlike stip. To the east, the first tint of red arrives in weak shades through overpowering blue……..we stood out in the desert this morning, and the chemicals in my brain poured soothingly through the gray matter, as if to massage with fingers the most tender part of my mind, as if to say, this is what a human is supposed to feel. This is what we were made for, to watch the beauty of light fill up earth’s canvas. To make dirt come alive; like fairy dust, making tees and cacti and humans from the magic of its propulsion. It makes me wonder, now, how easily the brain can be tricked out of what it was supposed to feel, how easily the brain can be tricked by somebody who has a used car to sell, a new perfume, whatever. You will feel what you were made to feel if you buy this thing I am selling. But could the thing you and I were supposed to feel, the thing you and I were supposed to be, cost nothing? Paul seems to think so, or at least he acts as if this is true. He doesn’t want to stay in a hotel room and catch up on the news. He doesn’t want to rifle through the sports page and make sure the team he has associated his ego with is doing well. I don’t think he is trying to win anything at all. I just think he is trying to feel what a human is supposed to feel when he stops believing lies. And maybe when a person doesn’t by the lies anymore, when a human stops long enough to realize the stuff people say to get us to part with our money often isn’t true, we can finally see the sunrise, smell the wetness in a Gulf breeze, stand in awe at a downpour no less magnificent than a twenty-thousand-foot waterfall, ten square miles wide, wonder at the physics of a duck paddling itself across the surface of a pond, enjoy the reflection of the sun on the face of the moon, and know, This is what I was made to do. This is who I was made to be, that life is being given to me as a gift, that light is a metaphor, and God is doing these things to dazzle us…”
Asunda - May 19, 2009 at 10:48 pm |
In connection with the topic of responsibility and stubborness that we covered today, I looked at my novel more closely. It is handled with a lot of humor in Cuckoo’s Nest. The Nurse, who runs the show, demands that the patients complete their cleaning tasks. The main character McMurphy, who wants to disrupt the process, does lots of little things to irritate the Nurse. He hides little comments in the toilet bowls, walks around in his undershorts, etc. He convinces her to let the guys watch the World Series, but he abuses his privilege by skipping out on his duties. The rest of the crew watches him and they all stop doing their work to watch the baseball game. This infuriates the Nurse so she shuts off the T.V. and nobody moves. They all just sit there and stare at the blank screen. It is very funny and shows the lighter side of responsibility.
Kurt - May 20, 2009 at 5:20 pm |
The Life of Pi
In light of our conversation about responsibility and childhood, I saw my book from a different aspect. Pi is forced into the world of sole responsibility, thrust out of the safe realm of childhood, where our greatest chores are attending school and helping around the house. This unfortunate end of Pi’s childhood made me examine my feelings toward total responsibility coming in the not so distant future. I feel a bit melancholy over the loss of my childhood and the transformation we have all made from little children to almost independent adults. I am more appreciative of the support I have from friends and family after encountering the suffering and loss experienced by Pi as he losses not only his childhood, but his country, home and family, everything he holds dear.
Heidi - May 20, 2009 at 9:00 pm |
“They Bought Satin Pajamas”
By: Joseph Kinsey Howard
The essay “They Bought Satin Pajamas” written by Joseph Kinsey Howard completely opened my eyes to what is really important in our life today. This essay is written about a family of ten that moved to Montana in the early 1900′s in hopes of finding a better life. This whole story is laced with different eye opening events that I can’t even imagine having to deal with today. In our life we have so many things done for us, from heat being pumped through our houses to our lights coming on when we flick one simple switch. The mother in the story is forced to take care of nine kids by herself while her husband is away trying to make money to keep his family alive. This included keeping her children alive by trekking through the snow each night to get coal for warmth, while the little ones were sleeping. I have found myself thinking about this family every time i drive my truck to school or flick on the lights in my warm and heated room each night. Has anyone else found this extreme will to LIVE present in their works?
Paul - May 20, 2009 at 9:15 pm |
The Red Badge of Courage
My book is about a young man who signs up to fight for the Union Army during the Civil War. Today in class we spoke about responsibility in our novels. In my book the main character Henry, undergoes a radical enlightenment on who he feels responsible for. In the heat of his first battle, Henry turns and runs. He has been worrying about this for the entire part of the book preceding this. However, he doesn’t feel he is wrong in what he is doing. He doens’t feel regret for leaving his comrades but instead feels that he has logically carried out his obligations – to himself.
“He had done a good part in saving himself, who was a little piece of the Army. He had considered the time, he said, to be one in which it was the duty of every little piece to rescue itself if possible.”
Duncan - May 20, 2009 at 10:07 pm |
Well, the characters in my book, “The Heart is a Lonely Hunter” force responsibilities upon themselves. The young girl, Mick watches her little brothers and is over-protective at times because she feels she should be their mother while theirs is running their family business. But often times she just leaves them and tells them to stay in the same place and when they don’t, she shakes them violently. The doctor feels responsible to save the all the African Americans in not only their town, but all of America, to raise a revolt against the white man. But in doing this, he has alienated his family from himself, and most of the African Americans in the town, because he puts himself above the stupidity of them. The most important is Singer, who is a deaf-mute who is obligated to watch all these characters spew their lives and secrets to him and just be a reassuring dummy. He is responsible for letting these people dream and wander in a field of self-pity and false hope. This makes me wonder why they all force these ridiculous responsibilities on themselves, why they can’t just be themselves and play the role they want. If Mick would let her brothers be raised the way she was, with her parents the way they are, they wouldn’t have such violent tendencies, and if the doctor hadn’t felt obligated to save an entire race of people, he would still have a family and wouldn’t die alone. If Singer would just tell these people to shut up and figure out what they actually want to do, it would have made my realization easier to come to. And that is that I have not a clue about what I see or want my life to be like. I think thats probably the greatest thing I’m learning here, that I really don’t want to accept the tradiontal responsibilities that most of the lives in our society hold, but that doesn’t tell me what I want any more than before. Its a horrible lost and confused feeling, like finding a rainbow in a thick fog.
Jessica - May 23, 2009 at 8:06 pm |
Mountains Beyond Mountains
I finally finished my book today!!! I was a much more challenging read than I expected, but I enjoyed it a lot. The theme of responsibility along with poverty were the most dominate in this piece of literature, but I really liked how Kidder showed through Paul Farmer how the idea of responsibility can be stretched to easily encompass more than just what the average individual considers socially correct. Reading this book has challenge my own ideas of acceptable social justice work, and has humbled my ideas of community service in a positive way. But more than that, it is a huge inspiration to any individual trying to make a difference in the world and doesn’t know where to start.
Megan - May 25, 2009 at 2:58 pm |
The Old Man and the Sea
So I was reading all these interpretations about my book and how it symbolizes a whole bunch of different things, but I’m not buying it. I think that Hemingway was just writing a book about an old man and his struggle against the sea. Personally, I think he did a darn good job of that, and I’m a big fan of his writing style so I’ll probably pick up a few more of his books sometime.
Anyway, my meaning of this book is just stick with whatever you do and never give in. Do whatever you gotta do to make it to your goals. Also if anyone tries to stop you stab them with a harpoon, that seemed pretty effective.
Cam - May 25, 2009 at 5:17 pm |
The Catcher In The Rye
I noticed that throughout my book the main character Holden Caufield is constantly searching for truth but never seems to find happiness from this quest. he points out “phony” things in everyone and makes valid points about the false images put out by our society, but is finding the truth so important that one should live a miserable life? I think Holden just needs to get out of the city and find something in life that truly stimulates him and that takes his focus off of all the negative aspects of the world. This is a good meaning of life to take away from this book. We need to seek what makes us truly happy and sets us free so that we are able to enjoy life and not focus on the horrors going on all around us.
Izzy - May 29, 2009 at 11:53 am |